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 Relevance of Religon, Politics, and Philosophy in your Hero'ing

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Tothian
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PostSubject: Relevance of Religon, Politics, and Philosophy in your Hero'ing   Mon Jun 25, 2012 7:20 pm

This has been discussed before, and the different ways of viewing this each have their own merits and demerits.

Religion can guide us in our belief systems and how we view things and act upon different situations, as well as our philosophical and ethical views. Politics in how we want the government to either make things easier for us, or not harder for us, or also be more supporting to causes we agree with, be it peace, justice, freedom, security, etc.

My religious beliefs are something I take very seriously and strongly believe and it guides me and motivates me in a very spiritual way in to everything I do as Tothian. I guess I can say I'm a bit hypocritical with this in the sense that I like to talk about this and share my views on this in one way I like to help, but I don't really like to debate this with people. I simply believe that what is, is, whether people choose to believe that or not. I consider myself a Jedi Christian -or- Christian Jedi (same thing). While the Jediism part is more philosphical than religious, both go together as part of my belief system. I'm a firm believer and supporter and follower of Lord Jesus Christ. Anything good I am, I believe it's Jesus who I have to thank for that.

My philosophical views are something sort of just my own individual preferences of ways I see things and the why I would do things this way and not that way, etc. Some of my philosophical ethical views involve more of deontology rather than consquentialism. I more believe that the action should hold precedence over the consequences. Not that the consequences aren't important also, but that if I had to choose, I believe that the actions are more important. While I do believe that the actions are more important than the consequences and am not afraid to share my thoughts on this, I don't usually take it too personally if someone disagrees, since this sort of philosophical view itself isn't about 'what' one should think, but rather implies 'how' someone thinks.

My political views are libertarian-leaning Republican. I do believe in less government control over the people. Too many laws and restrictions and regulations are too confusing for the people. I believe people should be allowed to carry weapons and protect themselves, because if they outlaw weapons, then only outlaws will have weapons. My life's mission has to do with protecting people and fighting evil. I also believe marijuana should be legalized and taxed. I don't personally like marijuana but I don't think it should be classified as an illegal drug because of the fact that it does hold medical advantage unlike other illegal drugs. I love to talk about politics with people, and with few exceptions not usually too offended if people disagree with me on things, I've been friends with people of various political affiliations and believe that people usually do have good reasons for their believing in certain policies.

All of them put together, form my system of beliefs. I think the lingering question is not how relevant it is to us (or it could be that too) but rather is this the kind of thing we should keep to ourselves and not attach these views to our hero identities, or if they are issues that matter to us and if we know a lot more people as our hero identities, should we share these views with others?

Pro's- Helps us relate better to people who think like us.
Con's- Could alienate us from people who don't think like us. Thus making it harder for us to function as effectively, and also be distracting from the hero work that really matters.

Pro's- If we are honest we are known to be more genuine and not fake-nice. There are some people who won't think much differently of us if they know we think much differently. And even if they do, it wouldn't be too distracting nor something people would remember too much as long as we're not too famous, or if it's about politics as long as we're not their elected officials it wouldn't matter too much.
Con's- There of course will be some people who will think differently from us and not want to be friends with us if we think differently than them on issues that are very important to them.

Anyway, I know this can be a controversial topic but I cannot strongly enough emphasize to be respectful here in this thread (and all threads, obviously). So, my questions to all of you here is:

1- How relevant are things like religion, politics, and philosophy to you - in the way you do things in your hero life?

2- Is it something you don't mind talking about openly? Or just to certain people? Or is it something you prefer to keep to yourself? Or only people you know in your civilian lives?
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PostSubject: Re: Relevance of Religon, Politics, and Philosophy in your Hero'ing   Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:27 pm

I couldn't have said it better myself Tothian. My religious believes are similar to yours except the Jedi part but I'm not going to say that it's not possible or that such power don't exist I have witnessed enough strange events in life to keep a open mind about such things.
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Tothian
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PostSubject: Re: Relevance of Religon, Politics, and Philosophy in your Hero'ing   Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:04 pm

Mystery Man,

Cool about the religious part. As far as the Jedi thing goes, it's not all entirely supernatural. Some of it is philosophical. Here is a thread with more info:

http://heroesnetwork.forumotion.net/t69-real-life-jedi
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PostSubject: Re: Relevance of Religon, Politics, and Philosophy in your Hero'ing   Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:54 pm

i am not religious...but i have a strong ethical vein that runs through me.
to me the higher the rank of the politician...the more favors he owes out and does for "friends"
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PostSubject: Re: Relevance of Religon, Politics, and Philosophy in your Hero'ing   Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:13 am

Ok, I just tried typing 4 times... 2 of those times I had a full page written, and every time my dang computer overheats!!!! So I'm not gonna take the time to right: Hey guys, sorry I haven't been around lately, I'm working on something... DAMN!!! I still did it, hope it doesn't overheat again Crying or Very sad...
Anyhow, as request from Tothian, I have read this article, and am ready to share my thoughts. I'll start off by saying there is only one correct answer to Tothian's first question, rather you realize it or not.
Of course we all apply our beliefs to who we are as a hero, they don't change just because we put some other clothes on... As far as religious beliefs go, using Christianity, strictly as an example... The Bible says that god saved us all and loves us all, believing this, it could help you resist from, say killing a serial killer... He would have it coming, and someone without the same beliefs probably would shoot him, but as a christian,you wouldn't.
As far as Philosophical views go, they kind of blend in with your religious beliefs go, at least I would think... because you have religious beliefs, you'll try to live that way yourself, so they basically become the way you always think.
And Political views blend in with both of the above, when you go to the polls, or if you're a straight party voter, you're going to vote for the one you share the most views with... that's just the way thing work....
If you wish me to expand any further on any of this, let me know, but I'm going to post this before my laptop shuts off again.
Black Arrow, Out.
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PostSubject: Re: Relevance of Religon, Politics, and Philosophy in your Hero'ing   Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:38 am

Wedjat,
That's cool about the ethical part of you. As far as politics go, I can kind of see what you mean about that.

Black Arrow,
I agree it wouldn't make sense that putting on our suits and using a different persona would nor should change one's views. As far as Christianity goes, there are the beliefs that go with that yet we like all people aren't perfect but we, if truly genuine, understand that but seek to be better. As far as politics go, are you open about your political affiliations and views? Or is it something you keep personal to yourself? And also how would you say your views as a superhero relate to your political views?
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PostSubject: Re: Relevance of Religon, Politics, and Philosophy in your Hero'ing   Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:58 am

I'm definitely open about my political views, half the time it's hard to pick a side though, because there's a lot of corruption these days. I suppose my views on politics does affect me as a hero, but I try to not let it, because there are different views, I'm the same way with religion... I don't go around forcing Christianity on anyone...
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PostSubject: Re: Relevance of Religon, Politics, and Philosophy in your Hero'ing   Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:44 am

I don't think it's a good idea if our goals as heroes were to force our views on people, but, at the same time I don't think there's anything wrong with sharing our views and explaining why we feel that way about what ever it is we're talking about, and if others agree with us then that's a bonus. It's better that way, because then we know people as they really are, can see why they disagree and if they agree with us then we know it's not just either blindly following us or just telling us what we want to hear.
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PostSubject: Re: Relevance of Religon, Politics, and Philosophy in your Hero'ing   Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:22 am

Exactly...
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PostSubject: Re: Relevance of Religon, Politics, and Philosophy in your Hero'ing   Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:01 am

What I belive is very closly intertwined with everything I do. It's the reason why I am who I am in the first place. I'm not going to put on a fake face, that's not the right way to do anything, and I've always hated the thought of having to hide who I am. If anything, I feel more free in the persona. Like the persona is the real me, and the other identity is the mask. I prefer to be me, not a mask.

Concerning who I tell though, mostly just friends, or anyone that would ask. Not so much hiding myself, but I mean I can tell anyone general things about it, but I go into much deeper discussions with friends.
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PostSubject: Re: Relevance of Religon, Politics, and Philosophy in your Hero'ing   Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:17 pm

There is no conceivably better way to say it than the way you just did ShowStopper!
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PostSubject: Re: Relevance of Religon, Politics, and Philosophy in your Hero'ing   Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:22 pm

When I think of my role as a Superhero, I like of it as like being one of knights of the round table. Going out and doing great deeds for those who need it, then coming here to tell of it. As far as my religious views go, most know this most don't. I try to go with the Field, the whole flow of the verse. Political views, yuck. That's all i have to say about that.

-Doberman
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Tothian
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PostSubject: Re: Relevance of Religon, Politics, and Philosophy in your Hero'ing   Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:14 pm

Doberman,

That is a cool way of looking at it. But as far as politics go, I believe when we talked about it you spoke of being a Ron Paul supporter?
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PostSubject: Re: Relevance of Religon, Politics, and Philosophy in your Hero'ing   Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:53 pm

Interesting topic, one that I'm very outspoken about.

In all fairness, and to prevent me from offending anyone I will say this, I myself do not believe in the existence of a higher power, god/goddess or anything of the sort. I'm not saying however that the possibility of something like that doesn't exist altogether now, but for me, there is simply not enough physical evidence for me to make a definite conclusion of one's existence. I you all must know where I stand on these things, please on your own time Google the Problem with Evil. My POV (Point of View) on this is that it's a correct analogy. Imperfection cannot from from Perfection and if Life itself is indeed just a test when what is the purpose of Humanity's existence then? Are we just a tape recording of something who's future is already set or are we all individuals how can are in control of both their futures and destinies? The argument of Free Will and Predestination are also factors to consider, factors that I will address later on in this thread. Still, these questions are highly relevant and should be deeply considered when divulging in the arena of Politics and Philosophy. I fee there's really no need for religion as it serves only to divide Humanity (the my God is bigger/greater/stronger than your god question) I myself prefer to philosophize about these things rather than be dictated to/preached at about things which no human actually knows the true nature or answers to.

I am DarkShadow and I approve this message. :-)

DarkShadow Rising

DarkShadow Rising...
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PostSubject: Re: Relevance of Religon, Politics, and Philosophy in your Hero'ing   Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:20 am

DarkShadow,

I think the belief you have is referred to as Agnostic, it's not entirely Athiest, but, while not believing, it isn't against the possibility, just isn't sure what to believe if they haven't seen some form of proof. I do see what you mean though about how religions have been ways that divided people, although some have been a way to bring some like minded people together too. And that's true how many people don't like to be told what to think. There is a form of confidence and comfort it can give people who need it.

I've never really viewed it as one person's God versus another. I've just viewed it as that there is God. But that different people have different interpretations of Him.

Also as far as politics go, what are your thoughts on that?
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PostSubject: Re: Relevance of Religon, Politics, and Philosophy in your Hero'ing   Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:12 am

Excellent analysis Tothian, you are indeed correct. I do consider myself an Agnostic.

As far as politics are concerned i too am a Libertarian/Republican who likes Ron Paul. The man simply makes sense and common sense is whats sorely missing in this world. In my opinion, politics and religion shouldn't mix. Ever. I think that the spirit of certain religious/philosophical inspirations are a good thing and are helpful, but full dogmatic principles are flat out wrong. Stuff like that leads to stuff like Sharia law and wrongly based perceptions about things. While certain absolutes can't truly be avoided, certain ideas that are religiously inspired can lead to some very bad things with even worse consequences.

DarkShadow Rising...
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PostSubject: Re: Relevance of Religon, Politics, and Philosophy in your Hero'ing   Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:50 am

DarkShadow,

As mentioned earlier, I too am a Libertarian Republican. And I agree with you about Ron Paul, he does have a lot of common sense, and isn't all about fitting in with the establishment, and isn't all about giving the government more power. Even though my endorsement goes to Gary Johnson, as I further explain here: http://tothian.blogspot.com/2012/05/tothian-makes-endorsement-in-2012-us.html - I did vote for Ron Paul in the primary since his name was on the ballot and I wanted to further legitimize the libertarian movement within the Republican party, rather than just simply vote for a guy just because he already won enough delegates to win the nomination.

A lot of the people I talk to are more libertarian-leaning, but some plan to vote for Mitt Romney anyway just because they see him as more likely to beat Obama. And then they tell me if I don't vote for the guy who has a better chance at beating Obama, that I'm wasting my vote and helping add a vote for Obama. But I view that as a manipulation tactic and really wasting my vote. I don't want to vote for a Presidential Candidate to be just because they're the lesser of 2 evils who has a better shot at winning. To me, that is a wasted vote. I want my vote to be for the candidate that I know won't give the government more power and try to take away the people's freedom. This time around, I believe that candidate to be Gary Johnson. I don't agree with him on every issue, but I do agree with him on certain issues as far as less government power. And whether Mitt Romney or Barack Obama wins in 2012, I don't want to feel responsible for either of their mistakes any of them would make in office. But, I'm not too worried about Gary Johnson making many mistakes, if any.
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PostSubject: Re: Relevance of Religon, Politics, and Philosophy in your Hero'ing   Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:27 am

Aye Ron Paul all the way.
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PostSubject: Re: Relevance of Religon, Politics, and Philosophy in your Hero'ing   Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:42 am

Doberman,

Ron Paul will be like 77 in August. He isn't running for re-election to Congress and likely will not be running for President again in the future. His son, Sen. Rand Paul, is considered to be the heir to his movement, although he did upset a lot of supporters for endorsing Mitt Romney. So he would not likely run in 2016 during a year he would be up for re-election to the Senate, and while it's possible if Mitt Romney wins, he wouldn't be running against his renomination bid. But if Obama wins, he likely would but it'd still be safer for him to run for re-election instead, assuming he'd want another term in the Senate. Senate terms are 6 years, Presidential terms are 4 years.

Also, Gary Johnson seems to be more likely to continue that libertarian movement, as he will be on the ballot in November and supposedly is already working on plans to run again in 2016.
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PostSubject: Re: Relevance of Religon, Politics, and Philosophy in your Hero'ing   Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:48 pm

My religion, politics, and philosophy affect me deeply, and this being the most important aspect of my life, it affects my work at least as much as the other parts of my life.

If what you do, choose, and represent is not in line with where you stand on these three things, I fear you aren't being very true to myself.

With respect, DarkShadow, I'm not putting my spiritual identity aside in my home, in the streets, nor in the ballot box. To do so would be self-denial.
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PostSubject: Re: Relevance of Religon, Politics, and Philosophy in your Hero'ing   Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:08 pm

No offense taken Phoenix. What works for you simply doesn't work for me. I'm cool with it.

DarkShadow Rising...
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PostSubject: Re: Relevance of Religon, Politics, and Philosophy in your Hero'ing   Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:28 pm

Phoenix,

I can't speak for DarkShadow, but one thing I do know is that people tend to have their personal beliefs and their moral beliefs. The personal being fueled by emotion, and the logic being more fueled by logic. (I'm sure I could be at least partially wrong about that, though)

For example, someone personally wants to punch so and so in the face and personally believes it should be done but morally knows that it's not the right thing to do and would use that part of their logic to decide not to do it.

Very often with a lot of things the personal and moral beliefs go together. But I believe we'd be lying if we said that there weren't those certain aspects of things we believe that didn't go against other aspects of our beliefs, thoughts, and opinions. It's the kind of thing that separates us from animals.
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PostSubject: Re: Relevance of Religon, Politics, and Philosophy in your Hero'ing   Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:36 pm

Frankly I've never seen a situation where your face wasn't in need of a good punch Tothian...I think a supreme being might let me slide on that one...
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PostSubject: Re: Relevance of Religon, Politics, and Philosophy in your Hero'ing   Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:57 pm

Phoenix,

LOL! Exactly. You get the idea.
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PostSubject: Re: Relevance of Religon, Politics, and Philosophy in your Hero'ing   Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:20 am

Wanting to bump up this thread because of a recent debate between me and Geist.

It would've been discussed privately if he wanted, but he wanted to take it openly, which I can respect that too. I think it's a good discussion. And actually a very important one, as well as fun.

I do believe in trying to promote a more honest, expressive, place. One that is founded upon knowledge. Because knowledge is power, and ignorance is weakness. You can't have true, honest acceptance if you deny certain facts. True acceptance is not on hiding your beliefs and being told you're accepted, nor feeling like you're accepted. True acceptance is when you know each other, both on the things you agree AND disagree with each other on. And then if you disagree and still find that you want to be friends, then THAT is TRUE unity. REAL friendship.

THAT is what I'm about. That is what I want the Heroes Network to be about.

I respect Geist for being honest with me in his beliefs. I don't agree with him that we should hide our beliefs. I don't expect anyone to agree with me 100% but I would rather at least have this discussion rather than simply ignore it. To do that would create fake peace, limit self-expression.

I AM a Christian. I won't apologize for that. And I won't hide it nor deny it. That doesn't mean I'm judging anyone for not being a Christian. Nor am I forcing it on anyone. I'm simply just expressing it freely.

The Heroes Network does have a section on the forum for a Church. It hasn't been used nor activated yet. But it might at the right time. Perhaps it could be soon. Nobody is forced to participate. It would simply be a place of knowledge, information, and learning. And also of self-expression for those who wish to express their beliefs, discuss them, or ask questions. And for anyone in need of spiritual guidance and support.

So if I'm not forcing anyone to believe, nor participate, then I don't think it's fair to be told to keep two of my systems of belief separate from each other, when in my mind, heart, and spirit, it feels right for me to not separate my systems of beliefs from each other. So whether anyone agrees with me nor disagrees, you are more than welcome to discuss this with me.
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