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 Pope Francis: All go to Heaven, even the Atheists.

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PostSubject: Pope Francis: All go to Heaven, even the Atheists.   Thu Jan 02, 2014 6:09 am

http://standupforthetruth.com/2013/05/pope-francis-all-go-to-heaven-even-atheists/

I thought this was pretty cool. Comforting too. I can stop worrying about my beliefs and feel comfortable with whichever path I wish to follow. I never really thought that if god is real that he'd send good people to hell just for not believing in an all powerful all knowing divine entity with a personal interest in their lives. My brain just can't jump to believing something that goes against logic and my better judgment. It's like trying to jam a square block into a circular hole; it just doesn't work. I want it to be true, but wanting something to be true doesn't make it true and that's when I hit the block in my way between whether to believe or not believe. All the times I've tried to believe and be christian I just didn't feel like me, like I was living a lie. So it's comforting that I can stick to my original plan; suspend any major decsision making regarding stuff like that until I die. When I die, I'm assuming, will be the point where I find out if there is or is not a god for sure. Faith is too hard for me, I have to have a solid foundation of information before I decide to believe something as true or false. So yay, I'm glad I don't have to keep thinking about it and just wait for the time when I find out for sure. If nothing happens I won't care because it would mean there isn't which would mean I simply just won't exist; it won't feel good or bad or anything. To know what happens after death in my current theory, just try to remember what it felt like before you were conceived in your mother. Chances are you won't even know where to begin figuring that one out, and if you try long enough you'll give yourself a headache. Don't worry, I'm like that too. A great philosopher once put it very well. He tried to imagine having no body, as if he were just floating around the room like a ghost. Then he tried to imagine that he had no mind. But he couldn't. He summed up his conclusions nicely with the saying, "I think, therefore I am." It's impossible to imagine having no mind or body accurately, because we've always had one in this experiencial realm. We can't really know for sure what happened before or what will happen after. Which is why I am so wildly curious and a little eager to die; I got some major questions that I'm gonna get answers too at that point. (Note: Not suicidal, or planning on trying to get myself killed; I'm going to live for as long as I possibly can; at some point (well, probably) I am going to die anyway. Unless they discover the secret to immortality. But even then, our sun has to blow up at some point. unless we've colonized another planet or even another galaxy by then. I have a strong feeling though that I won't last forever. That's just a happy thought. I want to live for at least five hundred years if I can. There's a lot I want to do in my life and it makes me really sad when I admit to myself that I probably won't have that much time to do all the things I've dreamed of doing. But, science and medicine and technology have been skyrocketing for a while, so my 500 year life span seems a little less unrealistic when you take into account the advances we'll make by the time I'm fifty (I wouldn't mind being stuck at fifty for hundreds of years; I may not look pretty but I work with fifty and sixty year old guys in wildfires and they function perfectly fine. Eat right and healthy and exercise and there's no reason fifty should be that terrible for me. It's just scary when I look at my dad.....I don't want to turn into him, lol. I'm kinda scared though I'm gonna end up a grumpy old man like him sometimes. I've only been around for close to a couple decades and I already feel a little cranky at all the crap that comes with the human condition and experience. Why would I ever want to be immortal then one might ask? Well then I would have all the time in the world to have whatever kind of life I want. Currently though with the idea I'll probably only live until 80 or 90 years max....there's a ton of years that were just crappy. And only because I was young and made mistakes. 90 year olds have pretty much learned how to navigate much of life on earth, but they're also about to die. I'd like a hundred years or so at least to live happily and heathily with the knowledge and wisdom that comes with old age. Totally got off topic, but interesting nonetheless. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Pope Francis: All go to Heaven, even the Atheists.   Sat Jan 04, 2014 2:10 am

Why is it you will listen to Pope Francis' word as truth but not mine?

I am not trying to compare myself to being the Pope. I'm just curious of your thoughts on this.
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PostSubject: Re: Pope Francis: All go to Heaven, even the Atheists.   Sat Jan 04, 2014 2:55 am

Whoa, I listened to your truth too. I don't believe either. I liked how he put it. No disrespect, it just sorta feels like most just try to convert. I have never heard a christian tell me that it was okay for me to be an atheist. That's what I liked.
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PostSubject: Re: Pope Francis: All go to Heaven, even the Atheists.   Sat Jan 04, 2014 3:03 am

I can listen, understand, and enjoy the words of anyone's beliefs without necessarily believing or agreeing with them.

I don't believe I'm going to Heaven or Hell; I'd have to believe in both as well as an all powerful, all knowing entity, and believe said entity has a personal interest in my life. But that goes against my better judgment, and thus prevents me from being able to believe it. It's a nice thought, kinda scary; I don't like the idea of an all knowing, all powerful being. I don't think any being should be all knowing and all powerful in the typical sense. If god is real, which is a possibility, the only way I believe he could be all knowing and all powerful is if I believed him to be an alien with a vast understanding of computer simulations. Reality behaves like a simulation already, and so that's the one thing; the loop hole if you will, that enables me to consider the possibility of god. If it turns out science can prove we're in a computer simulation and we find the programmer, (God) it doesn't mean this programmer is good in our universal definitions. We can';t know if it has our best interests at heart, for all we know we're just an experiment. A prototype for something way cooler; God's rough draft. We could end up in the godly trash can in replacment of a new, better model. After all, according to the Bible that already happened once. XD

I don't believe anything until I have strong reason to. Faith is dangerous in my mind, but that's just me. No disrespect to anyone or any religious groups.
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PostSubject: Re: Pope Francis: All go to Heaven, even the Atheists.   Sat Jan 04, 2014 5:07 am

Me, i just try to be a good person and hope that whatever afterlife exists will judge me on the good i try to do, not on faith.
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PostSubject: Re: Pope Francis: All go to Heaven, even the Atheists.   Sat Jan 04, 2014 5:29 am

Hero-Man,
Ah. I see what you mean now. And as for whether it is alright, I would not think it was alright with me. I always kind of wonder, when I die and meet God, will God wish that I had either tried to convert more people? Or will He wish that I had been more accepting of more people instead? Or, something in between? Or will He be glad with what I had done or not done? I don't know all the answers, but can only do what I believe is right.

I don't know if the Pope is consistent with the Christian beliefs. He seems to say things that just don't sound entirely right. But, then again I can't judge and I don't know all the answers.


Drone,
The faith we have or don't have is something that supplements well with our beliefs and any good we do.
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PostSubject: Re: Pope Francis: All go to Heaven, even the Atheists.   Sat Jan 04, 2014 11:55 pm

Sure you can judge. That's a thing I disagree with in the Bible; don't judge. This is an impossible task. We say it's wrong to judge but every single one of us judges our world multiple times a day. We can't help it; it's in our makeup. Judging is a survival instinct, fighting it is just going to frustrate you. I feel it's better to accept that everyone judges and that other's judgments are not necessarily right or wrong.

The notions of right and wrong are little complex with me. I believe in right and wrong, and I like to think that I have a sound moral judgment, (there's that word again haha), but I don't believe I have a choice. I consider free will to be an illusion. We can't choose if we will be good or evil.

I was recently watching a documentary on good and evil on the science channel, they were exploring the minds of psychopathic killers. One of the researchers was given a stack of brain scans and noticed some of them looked very different, with little to no temporal lobe activity. He set these aside; he was currently working for the psychology department at a prison.

When he asked about the abnormal brain scans, he discovered that these were the scans of all the psychopaths in the prison. They're brain activity was physically, observably, and measurably different. Upon further study they discovered testosterone and another chemical that is active when two teams compete against one another are both very active at the same time. The Good Chemical fuels the selflessness for your team members, the Testosterone fuels selfishness, a goal to defeat the other team. A football game is a perfect diagram of the human condition of life on earth. It's a constant polarity, and we need this to make mistakes and learn and grow. None of us are fully good or fully evil.

Back to the psychopaths. The scientist then received scans for each his family including himself for further study because he learned his ancestory had a lot of killers and psychos in it. The results came back pretty normal, except for one. His own. He discovered his scan matched those of psychopathic killers. He found this odd, because he hadn't killed anyone and didn't feel like doing so. But when his family was asked about it, they reported that he had always had a stand offish attitude and they were scred of him sometimes. The scientist was honest with himself and said that he did have an agressive attitude at times. He did further research to learn more, and discovered the Warrior Gene, which he discovered he also had. He had the brain and genes of a psychopathic killer. One thing he found though, was that he had a remarkebly wonderful childhood. If he hadn't, he reports he very well could have turned into a psycopathic killer, very easily. But since we cannot decide our brains, our genes, or who our parents are, we don't have much of a say in if we become good or evil. But, we like to think we have free will, because for most the idea that everything is predetermined is unsettling.

I don't think one needs religion to live a morally good life. Animals with no conception of human religion display signs of moral and ethical behaviour all the time. I once saw a Lion that was released back into the wild after being raised by a couple people from a lion kitten. They returned one day many years later looking for her. A lion came up over a dune, paused, looked at them, and at that instant, they both knew it was her. She ran towards them, stood up, and hugged them, and played with them. There were tears in their eyes. I'm sure the lion wasn't religiou, though she could still display love, and affection, and care. Emotions, and morals and ethics are chemicals in our brains. How they develop is based on our genetic and nuerological makeup and our experiences in life. This is just my opinion though. based on my experiences and upbringing. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Pope Francis: All go to Heaven, even the Atheists.   Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:50 pm

It isn't the mere nature of 'judging' itself that is bad. Because when it comes to food, or stuff I like to read about, there will be preference.

The idea is to treat others with the same respect you would want to be treated, if you were in their situation.

As for that scientist, he had his latent traits which seemed to be in his DNA. But the life course theories seemed to have the edge in giving him a better life. Sort of. It didn't change who he was but it did set him on a better path in life.

As for animals, I've always wondered about that too, actually.
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PostSubject: Re: Pope Francis: All go to Heaven, even the Atheists.   Wed Jan 08, 2014 6:47 am

I can agree with that. I always frowned upon people saying respect has to be earned; frowned on the saying. In my eyes respect should be given to everyone regardless of whether you agree with them or even if you don't like them. Respect is simply acknowledging that someone or something has worth, and everyone is worth something for someone. We all have a mother, lol. XD

It's too easy to respect only those you like and admire; it renders respect obsolete. It takes good character to be polite and respectful to those who hate you and appear to want to crap on everything you love.

On free will; I have my own beliefs. To me life is a series of cause and effect; something happens that sets the preverbial ball rolling, causing you to react, creating a new sequence of events, which force you to react to them, and so on and so forth until my brain quits working and I return to the stars. I think of life as sorta like a roller coaster. You're strapped in and hanging on for dear life as you rocket forward up and down vertical inclines and wide spirals, a sense of relief on the smooth and slower parts, causing you to feel something new, and then wham, 100 foot drop and then whoosh, straight up into the air! XD

In my mind there may not be any free will, but that doesn't take any of the fun and excitement and uniqueness out of life. Smile 

Always was a little confused by people who have told me my outlook must be dull and dreary because everything is predetermined, so I love that analogy, it's perfect: "The world's wildest roller coaster is completely predetermined, but it is anything but dull and dreary." Glad that just came to me; it makes so much more sense when put that way; I like it. XD
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PostSubject: Re: Pope Francis: All go to Heaven, even the Atheists.   Wed Jan 08, 2014 5:29 pm

I remembered either talking or thinking about that years ago. How there's the type of respect that people have to earn from you. Then there's the kind of respect you give all people.

But, I do think that respect should be earned.

What you refer to, is courtesy. Showing people respect.

They're similar but different.

You can show a whole room full of people courtesy. But the ones you get to know and can relate to or the ones who you see helping you or others, you begin to develop respect for them.
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PostSubject: Re: Pope Francis: All go to Heaven, even the Atheists.   Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:47 am

A deeper respect, true. It is difficult for me to respect the man Jony Rodgers, whom I've fought wildfire alongside of in the middle of nowhere, the same amount that I respect a stranger on the street. I show respect to both, but the type of respect is different. That's a good point you have; varying degrees of respect. I still think respect should be given to all, but one will of course hold those he loves and admires in a higher respect than those who has no affiliations with.
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PostSubject: Re: Pope Francis: All go to Heaven, even the Atheists.   Thu Jan 09, 2014 4:26 am

Well is that man someone you would consider you having respect for? Or someone you have grown to dislike? Or just lukewarm about?

All types of people have different types of friendships with different people they know.

It is funny how some people will show a complete stranger more respect than they show people they know for years.
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PostSubject: Re: Pope Francis: All go to Heaven, even the Atheists.   Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:56 pm

Interesting. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Pope Francis: All go to Heaven, even the Atheists.   Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:11 am

Yes.
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PostSubject: Re: Pope Francis: All go to Heaven, even the Atheists.   Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:10 pm

Personally I don't believe that people go to Heaven or Hell after they die, I believe our souls re-incarnate and we live new lives as new people. I also believe that there is a Karmic cycle which means the lives we live alternate between good and evil lives and pleasurable and painful lives. So if you're a good person in this life you'll be an evil person in a future life, and if you have a painful life right now you'll have a pleasurable life in the future.

It's kind of like you'll live one life where you're Luke Skywalker, then in the next life maybe you're Darth Vader, and then after that you might be Obi Wan Kenobi, and then the next time you're Emperor Palpatine.
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PostSubject: Re: Pope Francis: All go to Heaven, even the Atheists.   Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:55 pm

That would be a sad eternity if we had to live forever as people.

I've seen visions of the afterlife in dreams. Heaven is so wonderful I cannot with my memory perceive nor describe it the way I felt it. Then I see links to hell and the closer I got to it in my dreams it felt like how you'd feel when you were a young child and saw a horror movie for the first time.
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PostSubject: Re: Pope Francis: All go to Heaven, even the Atheists.   Sat Jan 11, 2014 6:44 am

No disrespect, but you may have a possibly serious chemical imbalance in your brain if you're getting such vivid religious experiences and it could be a symptom of a much more serious underlying medical condition. Either that, or you have a very prominent VMAT2 Gene. I hope it's the latter.  study
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PostSubject: Re: Pope Francis: All go to Heaven, even the Atheists.   Sat Jan 11, 2014 9:52 pm

LOL! No disrespect taken.

I don't think it's a bad thing. I think it's more like astral travel.

I don't know what VMAT2 Gene is.
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PostSubject: Re: Pope Francis: All go to Heaven, even the Atheists.   Sat Jan 11, 2014 9:59 pm

Hero-Man I disagree with a lot of what you say but I like your attitude and the way you say what you believe in.
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PostSubject: Re: Pope Francis: All go to Heaven, even the Atheists.   Sun Jan 26, 2014 1:23 am

Excelsior,

Haha. That's how I am with him too.
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PostSubject: Re: Pope Francis: All go to Heaven, even the Atheists.   Sun Jan 26, 2014 4:39 am

Aw, thanks. XD
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PostSubject: Re: Pope Francis: All go to Heaven, even the Atheists.   Sun Jan 26, 2014 4:42 am

Haha, for some reason the lyrics of an old song just played through my head after my last message, you may remember it from the movie "Across the Universe" awesome movie by the way. XD

"I am me and you are you and we are all together! See how they run like pigs from a gun see how they fly!" or something like that, it was the Lennon character, haha XD. Love that movie. Smile
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