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 RLSH team rules discussion

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Drone

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PostSubject: RLSH team rules discussion   Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:28 pm

I talked to Danners today and we came up with a list of some rules that we think should be standard for a RLSH team to avoid incident. I am posting this for discussion purposes, feel free to add to it, as it is a rough draft.

Rules for joining my team

1. Armor: Any member who wishes to go on crime patrol must have bullet resistant armor. Football pads will NOT stop a bullet and I will not risk anyone’s life unnecessarily. A Hero would not allow someone to run into danger unprepared.
2. Weaponry: All members of my team must have at least one non lethal weapon (such as a stun gun, stun baton or pepper spray) and must not carry a firearm. Firearms will cause legal trouble with police personnel at best and kill someone at worst. Other weapons, such as swords, bats and gimmick weaponry vary location to location and are not recommended. If it could kill someone, even by accident, leave it at home.
3. Money: All members on the team finance their own gear and supplies. Some team members may be kind and share some of their old gear with teammates, but this is not the norm. Gear is expensive and personal and you should not expect others to help you finance anything. Likewise, no member of the team will ever ask for money from other teammates for gear or in the form of a donation drive to finance their gear.
4. Tactics and actions: All members of the team should either carry a cellphone, or stick with another team member who has one. Team members are expected to patrol with at least one other team member and will never go on a mission solo. This is for safety reasons. We are not the police or vigilantes, we do not “take the law into our own hands” If someone has a gun, we call the cops. If we see a fire, we call the fire department. Our armor and weapons are for defense, not to take on armed criminals. Your cell phone is your best weapon against crime: Use it to call for help.
5. Training: All team members should have some sort of training be it first aid, martial arts, counseling, boxing. How formal the training is doesn’t always matter, but formal training obviously counts for more than self-taught training. Lack of training will not bar someone from joining, however, as all team members should share techniques and training to make for a more effective team.
6. Image: Heroes should be held to an exemplary standard. When you put on the mask and uniform you are committing to upholding heroic ideals. That being said, Heroes should make their best effort to remain friendly, helpful, kind and CLEAN. When on patrols heroes should not drink, do drugs, smoke, swear or take any other actions that would show personal flaw. If you are a smoker, drinker or casual marijuana user on your own time, so be it, but when in uniform you are making a statement that reflects not just you, but all real life superheroes as a whole.
7. Equality and decision making: All important decisions should be made as a team. Majority rules. All members of the team are equal and get an equal vote. If the vote ends in a tie, a compromise should be made and options should be peacefully discussed using the appropriate rules of debate. No ad hominem attack (meaning not resorting to insults or personal attack) no appeal to emotion, only logic.(begging, bargaining and guilt tripping or manipulation) And no use of the straw man fallacy (Meaning constructing a weak version of the oppositions argument and tearing it down to make your argument look better.) If no compromise can be made, just flip a coin and agree not to hold a grudge.
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Hero Man

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PostSubject: Re: RLSH team rules discussion   Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:01 pm

Sounds pretty good. I personally wouldn't be able join because I don't feel comfortable going into any potentially life threatening solution involving armed assholes on the streets without a gun.

If the law permits it in your area, I wouldn't agree with banning guns in the group. Guns aren't bad, they're tools.
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Drone

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PostSubject: Re: RLSH team rules discussion   Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:47 pm

I knew you would say that, Young boots. And i suppose i should add a clause saying that if you have a conceal carry permit and keep it hidden, so the police don't think you are armed and dangerous that it could work. I'm just concerned for people who just say "Screw it, i have a pistol, i'm carrying it" so they don't get arrested. I myself own a .38 special, but don't carry it on patrol (since i still need a conceal carry permit.)
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Hero Man

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PostSubject: Re: RLSH team rules discussion   Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:05 pm

Why don't you get a permit?
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PostSubject: Re: RLSH team rules discussion   Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:05 pm

Ok now I am going to add my thoughts in here this all sounds good and all but I have been doing this a while now and with no kind of armor at all cause I do not have the money for it and then the part about them having to have money to join wtf you do not have to have money to do this look at the guy that I work with Mystery Man I have help him buy gear and some of his uniform so say they have to have money seems wrong to me plain and simple. Now about the image of a hero let look a t that a moment I mean look at Punisher, Batman, Green Hornet and, Spider-Man each and everyone of those guy does thing a different way and each has a different image in the eyes of the people but they are all heroes so saying who can and can't be on the team based on how they do thing is pretty damn close minded from my point of view I mean who are we to say who can and can not do this. Finally making them already have had training that I messed up again look at Mystery Man he did not have really any kind of training I trained him so think about that for it is all I have to say on this right now.
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Drone

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PostSubject: Re: RLSH team rules discussion   Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:09 pm

My reason for stating that people are responsible for their own gear is because of things that i've heard of some RLSH teams doing, such as membership dues. If you want to help a teammate with their gear, it's completely cool. I stated it the way i did to try to discourage people from charging members fee's.

If you noticed with the training, i said it wasnt neccecary, but was encouraged and would be provided.

And as for image, i simply think we should all try to be the best we can be.
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Hero Man

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PostSubject: Re: RLSH team rules discussion   Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:31 pm

What's to stop a member from going on a patrol by themselves instead of with a partner? What if some individuals like solo misssions for therapuetic reasons?? XD
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Drone

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PostSubject: Re: RLSH team rules discussion   Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:56 pm

Not sure, man. It's a safety guideline. It's just generally better to have someone have your back. at very least having an oracle. But if you're a solo kind of guy, why join a team anyway? Razz Perhaps you guys have some ideas how i should revise this to make it more agreeable to the overall community?
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Hero Man

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PostSubject: Re: RLSH team rules discussion   Sat Nov 16, 2013 1:58 am

Meh, who knows; some missions may require  just two guys, others a small army, a typical team player may just want some space. XD

For what it's worth, number two was the only one I had any concerns with; I feel when it comes to weapons whatever is legal should be allowed, even if it's a gun. I like number 1 and 3 through 7 as I am a safety first kinda person, haha; kinda why I like the abilities of a gun; safest option because most people are afraid of getting shot, thus inceasing the chances of everyone going home safe. I don't like fighting; people don't use guns to fight, they use guns to win. Good guys and bad guys alike.
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Drone

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PostSubject: Re: RLSH team rules discussion   Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:18 am

I agree. with the money thing it's all just a concern over donations and such. I personally intend to stock up on pepper spray and gadgets, so if anyone wants to join my team i can lend them communal gear, but that's me personally. I intended this as a guideline for most RLSH, assuming i can somehow assemble a list -most- everyone can agree with.
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Tothian
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PostSubject: Re: RLSH team rules discussion   Sat Nov 16, 2013 11:59 pm

I do not agree that there should ever be rules that are standard for any team - as if they had to do it and are excluded if they can't do it.

The thing about being a hero, is that you do it not because you have permission to do it. But because it has to be done.

If you meant it as general guidelines that seem to work not just in theory but in practice, then alright.

Smart tactics is the idea. Having a between intelligence and stupidity, versus bravery and cowardice. And also what you're able to do.

Not all heroes can get armor. Not all heroes are intelligent. Heroes don't fit into one stereotype but rather all stereotypes. The only thing that unites us is our diversity.

With that being said, do what you feel is right. Be creative and seek to learn. Be humble and willing to not exclude people who disagree. There were times I had done it and times I had not done it. Things always seem to work better when you're open to debate and are willing to hear what the others want to say, even if you know you'll disagree. You owe it to them for the rare chance you will agree or at least learn something. Communication is key.

Common goals. Not all who choose to become RLSH will have common ideals, goals, values. Go from there and find something you can all come together on.

Be constructive, and have fun. Be yourselves.
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Hero Man

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PostSubject: Re: RLSH team rules discussion   Sun Nov 17, 2013 12:53 am

Well said. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: RLSH team rules discussion   Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:57 am

You know what? I think there is a lot of good points on safety here. 
He isn't saying that if you have been doing this without armor you're an asshole or you're doing a bad job, and he isn't saying you have to have money to be a RLSH either. This is about Drone's team layout and what he and I believe to be good rules to have on the table when starting a team. 

The independent cash flow thing; that is literally a clause to avoid anything like the Phoenix Jones fiasco. IE "put your money in the pot and it goes walkies" kind of deal? best way to avoid that, is to not have a pot. Make it clear you aren't handing out for gear. 

Although a lot of people patrol without body armor and training; both are a splendid way to ensure a longer life span. To be blunt. 
Personally (and I said this to Drone) I would like everyone on my own team to have at least some basic knowledge in First Aid before any patrols are taken, more often than not we are first on the scene to an incident and BASIC first aid knowledge can be the difference between a skilled practitioner putting in an educated hand to offer a solution and a kind heart trying his best but making things a little worse. 

This extends to self defense also for me. Some of you might disagree, but I am Kung Fu and MMA trained and I know for a fact that if I wasn't, there would be some scrapes that I just wouldn't have gotten out of in one piece. I'd like to have that kind of insurance for my team mates too, and Drone agrees on this also. You don't have to have that before hand, but it would be good if you got it. 

Also, solo patrols aren't forbidden, but when operating in a team communication is key. You then represent that team, so best to let your team know where you're going for that reason and for safety. None of this is saying "you cannot do this you cannot do that" it is simply a "I'd like it if you did this and I would prefer it if you didn't do this in this situation" kind of deal for personal team, not a RLSH do and don't and if you do it when I say don't screw you! 

I just think that this is a pretty good reference point on how to "Not get dead" Wink 
Good job, Drone.
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PostSubject: Re: RLSH team rules discussion   Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:09 am

Thanks Danners. I think you helped me clear up some of my points. Trust me guys, i'm the last person to tell people what to do or what not to do. I just want everyone to stay safe.
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Hero Man

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PostSubject: Re: RLSH team rules discussion   Sun Nov 17, 2013 6:03 pm

Thanks for clarifying guys. Smile
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Tothian
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PostSubject: Re: RLSH team rules discussion   Sun Nov 17, 2013 6:29 pm

Young Boots,
Thanks!

Danners,
You bring up some good points there. Especially about having everyone trained in first aid. And also on each mission, deciding if in a worst case scenario, who does the first aid, who calls 911, who goes after the bad guy if it is a situation like that, etc.

Drone,
It's always good to have these discussions. To know where everyone stands on things like this and why. And I'm all for a good balance of smart tactics and doing what I believe is right.
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Drone

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PostSubject: Re: RLSH team rules discussion   Sun Nov 17, 2013 8:07 pm

Precisely. As stated previously, training isn't necessary to join a team, and will be provided. Armor isn't required either, but as a group leader i would probably put people who don't have armor on first aid or driving the patrol vehicle, or even being oracle. And of course, armor isn't needed for say, homeless outreach, charity work or helping people in general, just for dangerous situations (where being protected is common sense.)

Additionally, something i thought to bring up, Just my own little idea. (as in, nothing related to being a rule Razz ) but if i do get a team, i will probably assign roles based on how MMO's Do them. Tank, Healer and Support. Of course, everyone should be trained to do every role if possible, but designating one person to each role as primary. I.e: Whoever has the best first aid skill falls under the healer category, if only one guy has armor he's probably "tank" and whoever has the best cellphone/walkie talkies/drives the car is designated support. There can be overlap, but everyone has a job and knows it's their responsibility.

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