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 Q: What is the difference between an RLSH and a Vigilante?

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PostSubject: Q: What is the difference between an RLSH and a Vigilante?   Sun Sep 08, 2013 4:09 am

An all-too common and seemingly inncoent question that's asked by younger people who are unfamiliar with each of the terms. The two terms are very different and while one is positive, the other is derogatory. In my mind, being called the "V-word" is perhaps similar to a person of color being called the "N-word." But I try to take in stride for now as we educate the younger folks.

Questioner: Hey, I was just wondering, what is the difference between a real life super hero and a vigilante?

Rlsh Geist: A Vigilante takes the law into their own hands. A Real-Life Superhero works within the realms of the law and doesn't break it.

Questioner: Hmmm...interesting. Well thanks for the info, just getting my facts straight

Rlsh Geist http://en.wikipedia.org/wikiVigilante Rlsh

Rlsh Geist: http://www.reallifesuperheroes.com

Rlsh Geist: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real-life_superhero

Rlsh Geist: I'm very happy to straighten this out for you or anyone else before anyone gets the wrong idea.

Questioner: Well that's good, and now that I think about it, I think I know what a vigilante is.
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Tothian
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PostSubject: Re: Q: What is the difference between an RLSH and a Vigilante?   Sun Sep 08, 2013 4:33 am

Geist,

Thank you for sharing this discussion with us.

Each term can loosely vary, from place to place, and individual to individual.

The term Vigilante can tend to mean someone who is a self-appointed doer of Justice. That's the simple explanation. It's legalities and definitions can vary from location to location, depending on local, state, federal, and international laws.

The term real life Superhero varies from individual perception. The heroism and justice and ideals that a superhero stands for cannot be written by others for the superhero to follow, but rather for it to be written into an individual's mind, heart, and spirit.

Real Life Superheroes can vary in types and levels. Here's a thread to explain more on that.

http://heroesnetwork.forumotion.net/t733-the-heroic-box-of-4-boxes
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PostSubject: Re: Q: What is the difference between an RLSH and a Vigilante?   Sun Sep 08, 2013 4:48 am

I just wrote a big reply to this, and it's gone. :-(
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Tothian
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PostSubject: Re: Q: What is the difference between an RLSH and a Vigilante?   Sun Sep 08, 2013 4:53 am

C,

I didn't delete it.

Do you know if it actually sent through? Or did you click send and x out the window?

If you wrote a reply, and from the time you read the thread to the time you replied, if in that time, I wrote and sent my reply, then it would've shown a new reply in the topic, and then you would've had to click send, again.
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PostSubject: Re: Q: What is the difference between an RLSH and a Vigilante?   Sun Sep 08, 2013 4:54 am

Oh... that might have been what happened then yes. Didn't notice.
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PostSubject: Re: Q: What is the difference between an RLSH and a Vigilante?   Sun Sep 08, 2013 5:00 am

Ah. That's why I always try to save posts before I send them. But, more so if they're a longer one.
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PostSubject: Re: Q: What is the difference between an RLSH and a Vigilante?   Sun Sep 08, 2013 11:11 pm

Geist is correct. The only thing I would add, is Vigilantes perform acts that make themselves feel better about an issue or issues, regardless of the benefit for the people/public.
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PostSubject: Re: Q: What is the difference between an RLSH and a Vigilante?   Sun Sep 08, 2013 11:55 pm

Wall Creeper,

Gee thanks you forgot about me. lol

And I think to say that all Vigilantes are like that isn't always true. While it can apply to some, just like all RLSH's are different, same thing with Vigilantes. And some can be both. Not all, but some.

To use fictional examples, a lesser extreme would be Batman.

A greater extreme would be the Punisher.

It can vary in between regular Crimefighter and the Judge/Jury/Executioner type.
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PostSubject: Re: Q: What is the difference between an RLSH and a Vigilante?   Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:35 am

Alright, lemme try this again. 2 things comes to mind:

1) Like Tothian says, there are degrees of vigilantism. The definition of the word is something like: "One who takes or advocates the taking of law enforcement into one's own hands."
By that definition, there is definitely a bit of vigilantism within the community. Recently Dark Guardian posted this on Facebook:

You can not donate food to homeless shelters in NYC due to Mike Bloomberg.
I personally go out on the streets and feed them.
Bloomberg you can go to hell. NYC government you can go to hell.
It's time for people to become outlaws.
OUTLAWS FOR GOOD.


Anyone who knows Dark Guardian also knows that he'd never take the law into his own hands as such. Nevertheless that's apparently what he does now, and clearly what he encourages others to do. And I'm quite sure everyone here thinks that's fine. Because: Doing the right thing is more important to a RLSH than following stupid laws.


2) Since no one owns the RLSH label, anyone can call themselves RLSH - including vigilantes.


So by that, we do have a bit of vigilantism in the community - an they are in fact RLSH.
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Tothian
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PostSubject: Re: Q: What is the difference between an RLSH and a Vigilante?   Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:15 am

I agree with C about that.

And I also agree with Dark Guardian about that. He's right. Mike Bloomberg is a horrible dictator - stole a 3rd term and then decided that 2 terms were best. Makes a law to control everything. It's a good thing that his final term as Mayor is over at the end of the year. Again, kudos to Dark Guardian for that.
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PostSubject: Re: Q: What is the difference between an RLSH and a Vigilante?   Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:34 pm

In my opinion, a Vigilante is a bad thing. To me, a Vigilante is someone who breaks some laws to uphold others. This to me, seems a tad hypocritical. How can one justify upholding the law while breaking other laws? In my opinion, if you are going to be a REAL LIFE SUPERHERO then you should ACT like a Superhero. Where did the "Rules Of Being A Superhero" come from? The comics. And as such, in said comics, the Superhero was suppose to be an advocate for all that is good and right in the world and abide by the laws governing them in their country of residency.

Anyways long story short, if I caught a "Vigilante" in MY city. They'd have to answer to me, and ultimately the police. I'm not gonna support any law breakers on my watch. We're not above the law and we don't get to just choose which ones were gonna obey and not obey while trying to force others to abide by them. It's bullcrap.

The only time I can see my opinion changing on this is when the government its self starts becoming the criminals. When tyranny is law, the outlaw becomes the TRUE form of Justice. Like this "Don't Feed The Homeless" garbage. THAT'S CRIMINAL. The Police who arrest you for helping your fellow man then become the law breakers. WE CRY FOR JUSTICE!!!

Also to end on a bit of a levity note, I would LOVE to see Batman Vs. The Punisher :-P

Thanks everyone for reading and mulling this over.

- Your friendly neighborhood Turtleman.
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PostSubject: Re: Q: What is the difference between an RLSH and a Vigilante?   Wed Sep 11, 2013 12:03 am

Aftershock,

What about the example where one has an evil Mayor *coughMIKEBLOOMBERGISANASSHOLEcough* who makes it illegal to feed homeless people? Would you uphold and defend that law?

I don't think that the ideas of superheroes originated in comic books. I think they were popularized in comic books, thus pushing that concept further in to the mainstream. A slightly earlier version of fictional superheroes was Sherlock Holmes. But, even fiction was written by real people. And real people basing their stories off of realistic concepts which have been around in real life before.
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PostSubject: Re: Q: What is the difference between an RLSH and a Vigilante?   Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:55 am

I believe I already stated that I would help the homeless regardless of law or not. And that when the law becomes unjust, that the outlaw becomes necessary. Anywho I posted this in another place but thought I could get some better feed back on it here:

We're not better than the police. Most of us have no where NEAR the training and physical abilities the Police do. We also aren't legally allowed to carry guns, or extendable batons etc (at least not up here in Canada). We also for the most part don't even have armed back-up we can call on if we get in a jam.

We as RLSH are basically a glorified self-appointed Neighborhood Watch. All we can do is be the police's extra eyes and ears when it comes to crime. Citizen's Arrest has a LOT of stipulations and limitations. So trying to enforce that liberty when confronting a potential suspect / threat is STILL very up in the air for plausibility when it comes to the Police and Courts.

Don't fool yourself into thinking we're something we're not. We're here to help our communities by being vigilant NOT vigilantes. Most of all, we're NOT above the law.

Those of you who are off to be the next Kick-Ass or Punisher or Batman (whatever) are only gonna get yourself killed or arrested. And if too many incidents of this start happening, you're only gonna ruin the RLSH thing for the rest of us. Because eventually if enough of you confused "Crime Fighting" do-gooders get locked up, the government is gonna enforce the "Keene Act" and then NON OF US will be able to help ANYONE while in a superhero uniform, let alone wear a mask in public.

So wise up! PLEASE and THANK YOU!

- Your FRIENDLY neighborhood, Turtleman.
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Tothian
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PostSubject: Re: Q: What is the difference between an RLSH and a Vigilante?   Wed Sep 18, 2013 4:38 am

Aftershock wrote:
I believe I already stated that I would help the homeless regardless of law or not. And that when the law becomes unjust, that the outlaw becomes necessary.
That part is good.

Also making sure you educate voters in your city to make sure they don't elect people who would dare enforce such legislation.

Aftershock wrote:
Anywho I posted this in another place but thought I could get some better feed back on it here:
Oh you know you can get better feedback here. Even if we disagree there can still be respect. The disagreeing part means we can have more interesting discussions!

Aftershock wrote:
We're not better than the police. Most of us have no where NEAR the training and physical abilities the Police do.
The silly douchebag part of me wants to say "Speak for yourself!!!" BUT I was hoping someone who actually was lame would've said that, so that I could've felt better saying it to them. You aren't lame, so I'm not saying that to you.

And have you seen some of the cops in the U.S.? Some of them are chubby and sit in donut shops. There's also some who are fit though. It depends on their eating and exercise habits though. So they vary from individual to individual, just like us.

As far as being better or not better than them, we can't compare ourselves to them because it's like comparing apples and oranges. We aren't police, but we can do things they can't do, and they can do things we can't do.

Aftershock wrote:
We also aren't legally allowed to carry guns, or extendable batons etc (at least not up here in Canada). We also for the most part don't even have armed back-up we can call on if we get in a jam.
Sorry to hear it's like that there.

As for having armed back up, it depends on connections you have. OR, that's when you the superhero actually could call in the police for back up.

Aftershock wrote:
We as RLSH are basically a glorified self-appointed Neighborhood Watch. All we can do is be the police's extra eyes and ears when it comes to crime. Citizen's Arrest has a LOT of stipulations and limitations. So trying to enforce that liberty when confronting a potential suspect / threat is STILL very up in the air for plausibility when it comes to the Police and Courts.
I'm not a neighborhood watch and depending on what kind of crime I see, will depend on my action. See someone getting attacked, you can be pretty sure I'm not gonna wait minutes for someone else to arrive, I'm going to do something myself. That's what separates a superhero from an ordinary good citizen or a neighborhood watch.

See a house or car get broken in to - depending on the threat level, if someone is in danger of someone smashing something through their window while the driver/passenger(s) inside, then you gotta take action, or if there's the possibility they're the owner who got locked out, you still don't want to appear to be someone who is assisting someone breaking in to someone else's house or car.

Drug dealing, be like a Detective then and do what you gotta do. Weed, doesn't fit the same criteria to be made a drug. And is starting to become legal in more places. But bad stuff like crack really destroys communities.

Aftershock wrote:
Don't fool yourself into thinking we're something we're not. We're here to help our communities by being vigilant NOT vigilantes. Most of all, we're NOT above the law.
This community, unlike the police and militaries, are very diverse. Depending on things like:

- The problems an individual encountered, can determine their goals and morals.
- Cultures and legalities can be diverse as well, as each of us mostly live in different areas. In some areas like our southern states, guns are a glorified item, but in a lot of the northern liberal states, guns are condemned.

Aftershock wrote:
Those of you who are off to be the next Kick-Ass or Punisher or Batman (whatever) are only gonna get yourself killed or arrested. And if too many incidents of this start happening, you're only gonna ruin the RLSH thing for the rest of us. Because eventually if enough of you confused "Crime Fighting" do-gooders get locked up, the government is gonna enforce the "Keene Act" and then NON OF US will be able to help ANYONE while in a superhero uniform, let alone wear a mask in public.

So wise up! PLEASE and THANK YOU!
We can't control what others do - then again to be fair we can influence, if we present our opinions wisely - but there will always be others in this community who disagree with us - and that is an awesome thing that we all find our own unique ways of going about this.

There is no legitimate way the government can prevent us from doing this without becoming the bad guys themselves. And the people aren't accountable to their governments. The governments are accountable to the voters who elect them. So then we present our case to the people and they present the case to their Congress or Parliament, and should they fail to support the will of the people, then next election time, vote them out and elect better people in.

We don't do this because we're allowed. We do this because we have to and BECAUSE there are bad people who don't want us doing this.

We as people are basically required to stand up for what we believe in.

Aftershock wrote:
- Your FRIENDLY neighborhood, Turtleman.
Is Turtleman your name or more of a title or what?
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PostSubject: Re: Q: What is the difference between an RLSH and a Vigilante?   Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:06 pm

Well Tothian, like I tell everyone, the first time I was referred to as "Turtleman" was by a group of kids who were skateboarding in Memorial Park. Which is a place I usually meet some of the other RLSH for patrol and also a place of interest for Litter Removal (when I do that). I was cleaning up the park that one day and a kid stopped me and asked "Whoa dude! What's with the mask?". I told him and his friends about my team and our cause etc. Then he replied "So who are you then? Turtleman?"

Of course at first I just laughed this comment off, but eventually a few weeks later whilst patrolling the Oshawa Trails pathway this young lady in a group friends yelled out "Hey! It's Turtleman!!!" as they passed by. I waved politely and said hi then from there I just adapted the persona. Figured, well if they want a Turtleman, then they got one!
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PostSubject: Re: Q: What is the difference between an RLSH and a Vigilante?   Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:04 pm

LOL! Cool!

Hey Mystery Man, looks like more members of your family are joining up here! LOL

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PostSubject: Re: Q: What is the difference between an RLSH and a Vigilante?   Sat Oct 12, 2013 8:27 pm

You should make a version of that pic with me in it too haha
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PostSubject: Re: Q: What is the difference between an RLSH and a Vigilante?   Sun Oct 13, 2013 12:56 pm

Ok this is my 2 words for the difference. "Action Orientation". We all take different actions to be effective in our own ways. Ive always said, dont know what to do, know what your capable of. Everyone can make a difference in their own way. Find it and exploit it.
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PostSubject: Re: Q: What is the difference between an RLSH and a Vigilante?   Sat Oct 19, 2013 12:18 am

Aftershock,
Hmmmm... Which one would you be?

Ecliptico,
Knowing limits and capabilities is good. But it's also good to have an idea what to do.
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PostSubject: Re: Q: What is the difference between an RLSH and a Vigilante?   Sat Oct 19, 2013 9:59 pm

Tothian: I'd be Raph I guess?
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PostSubject: Re: Q: What is the difference between an RLSH and a Vigilante?   Sat Oct 26, 2013 6:08 am

Yep.
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